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Jasband
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PostSubject: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:23 am

Discuss Artifacts, Paragons, and magic (outside of teleportation, i.e. Major Spells) here.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:39 pm

Although I said no teleportation above, I think that if we allow players to pay the Wizards' Guild to develop a teleport spell to a region, it should be treated as a Major Spell. That means it'd require Runes and a Nexus, but in exchange there would be no limit to how many men could be transported in a season.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:50 pm

Sounds good.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:17 am

Limes wrote:
Sounds good.

You didn't even read my teleportation thing Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Thu May 02, 2013 10:35 pm

Introducing:
Paragons with Abilities!
AKA: EoP

As of now, in battle, the only thing that really comes into play is the general tactics that we choose, as well as their health. This is all well and good, but that seems to blanket all the paragons as basically the same thing. I have been giving some thought into a system we could use, and uh… Here it is!

First off: Adrenaline

Not all battles will be using this – Sometimes we just send troops with imaginary generals out to do missions without paragons; again, that’s perfectly fine. Battles WITH paragons, on the other hand, would use this system.

Basically when a paragon is actually doing battle against anything, they will gain adrenaline over time. This adrenaline will go up in percentages I’m thinking around 30% (So you would be able to use an ability once in the season you begin battle.) As battles usually do not last for longer than three seasons, I think abilities will only be used three times per battle.

Adrenaline gain will look like this: (Keep in mind, I’m assuming the person uses their ability at their 100% turn.)

First turn – 30%
Second Turn – 60%
Third Turn – 90%
Fourth Turn – 100% (Can use ability)
Fifth Turn – 30%

Season End

First Turn – 60%
Second Turn – 90%
Third Turn – 100% (Can use ability)
Fourth Turn – 30%
Fifth Turn – 60%

And so on.

Abilities

The paragon’s abilities are to be decided by the owner and then approved by the Game-master for balance. Abilities are only really usable in combat, and require 100% adrenaline in order to be used (Just like an ultimate in-game.) I was thinking all paragons can have only two abilities at any time; if they wanted to change theirs, they would have to go into training for a few turns.

Examples of Abilities, if we’re using Cyra as an example:

Volt Tango: A large lightning bolt is loosed on an area near Cyra.
Bolt Toss: Cyra throws her two fans, using electricity to spin them around her as she moves.

Finally: Displays

Under your paragon section in your booking, if you’re keeping one, you would have something like this:


Paragon
Class:
Melee, Ranged, or Magic
Weapon
Something
Abilities
Ability One: Effect
Ability Two: Effect


When in battle, you use this:


Paragon (Health%)
Adrenaline: x%
Abilities:
Ability One
Ability Two


Health will be recorded as it has been – Below it we will be able to see the adrenaline of the paragon.

~~~

Basically what Siroki Posted. Should we incorporate this, Elaborate on this?
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Fri May 03, 2013 1:26 am

I personally think factions have enough customization, but I can see how this is a bit different since the Warlord is a battlefield unit. I'd prefer not to have it (because then we'd probably need to give all Combat Paragons a similar system), but it's really up to William on this one.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Fri May 03, 2013 7:11 am

Truth be told, I do want even more customization. I do like putting abilities on even your warlords, but the whole adrenaline system is unnecessarily complicated. Let's just give them abilities, issue cooldowns and that's that.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Fri May 03, 2013 9:39 am

Okay.

How many abilities would be good? Two? Three?

...Five?
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Fri May 03, 2013 10:21 am

That actually depends. If it's about abilities like Sisebmal's rallying cry, there's really no need for anything else. however, if we're talking about an archmage paragon, there could be stuff like three different sorts of more powerful attacks, none of which are incredibly strong, but could have special effects (like, a spell that shoots out a lightning that shocks and stuns a certain number of troops). This all depends on the power of individual abilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Fri May 03, 2013 10:28 am

Players are going to approach you with what they want their Warlord's abilities to be, so we need a number they can approach you with. In terms of balance and whatnot, you're gonna get players like Toa who want to suggest something OP and players like me, who don't want the GM to nerf their proposal (if the GM has any sense, which, in this case, he does). Perhaps we could just let the GM decide abilities when the player decides what type of Warlord he has (Melee, Ranged, Magic), but even if we do that, people will be confused as to why one Warlord has 3 abilities while another has 1. It could be argued that, while the 3 abilities may be weaker individually, they offer more than the 1 because they will likely have special effects that give that Warlord a greater versatility in a number of combat situations.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Sun May 05, 2013 12:37 pm

Jascertes just reminded me, I'm going to apply a random chance each turn for each player to receive a potential paragon. This means that an exceptional individual has been spotted and with a small (big) investment, he/she can be trained to become a paragon. I'm thinking along the lines of 5% per turn, so receiving a paragon this way is at least realistic.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Sun May 05, 2013 2:06 pm

I "reminded" him by potentially having some type of recruitment system for Paragons so that they would not have to be developed via research (which is weird). I'm good with a chance to find an exceptional individual each season.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Wed May 15, 2013 8:50 pm

Artifacts will be more numerous and more versatile than in GW4. There will be two main types:

Equipment Artifacts will be pieces of gear or weapons that can be worn/wielded. They do NOT have to be used by a Paragon; they can be used by any soldier, but they'll be MOST effective (and the most well-protected) in the hands of a Paragon. If no Paragon is available, then, ideally, a Commander would use them.

General Artifacts are tools that aren't worn or wielded, like ancient books or war horns, that can also be used by anyone.

No Artifacts will be bound to anyone, so they can always be transferred until they're destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Wed May 15, 2013 9:16 pm

What's the policy on Making artifacts?

Lime's current Mathematical Model for Artifact creation:

Thing + Gems + Runes^alot + Randomthingthatcatapultsitemintofameorinfamy = Artifact.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Wed May 15, 2013 9:17 pm

I'll wait for William's post for that...
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Thu May 16, 2013 3:02 am

I want to lenient in this, like in GW2 (*cough*). A player can basically create an artifact out of anything. Whether or not the artifact does naything, however, is a different matter. You will require runes for them to have a magical effect, and gems will most likely amplify the effect of runes. The rest, however, is pretty much up to the player. There will likely be paragons specialised in creating artifacts (like, legendary blacksmiths).
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Thu May 16, 2013 12:35 pm

My original aim with Artifacts was for them to be objects of power already in the world, most of them having some historical significance. However, if players can pump out Artifacts like candy, then I think those ancient objects should be renamed "Relics" as a differentiation. The power and capabilities of these Relics are already known (or can be easily assumed) if we look in-game or in lore, while Artifacts, being player-made, are more volatile. Relics would be found in specific regions or carried by individuals, while Artifacts would be produced in cities (but can then be carried as described).

Do you think we should merge Artifact production with Applied Research?
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Thu May 16, 2013 12:37 pm

Yes. The Manufacture of Artifacts needs to be very difficult and prone to failure, if an Artifact is to be as powerful as a Relic.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Thu May 16, 2013 12:41 pm

Limes wrote:
Yes. The Manufacture of Artifacts needs to be very difficult and prone to failure, if an Artifact is to be as powerful as a Relic.

Well, Relics would be rare, but their power and abilities would be known. Artifacts would be easier to produce, but will still cost time/resources. Of course, the more powerful you want to make an Artifact, the more it'll cost. But making a "weak" Artifact shouldn't be too difficult, because the aim here is to increase the amount of Artifacts/Relics in the game overall. It's so similar to Applied Research (the more ambitious your goal, the more time/resources it'll cost) that I attempted to make that connection.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Thu May 16, 2013 2:28 pm

Well, I really don't want people pumping out artifacts like candy. I agree with the rename to relics, but let me get something straight:

Although you can craft artifacts, they will hopefully not be too easy. I'm still thinking on some sort of a mechanic to properly limit the creation of artifacts in this manner.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Fri May 17, 2013 10:23 am

Alrighty Razz. Do you want Artifact creation to be counted as an Applied Research project?
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Fri May 17, 2013 11:06 am

Nah. They're not the same.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Sat May 25, 2013 2:14 pm

The idea below sort of goes along with my Paragon Abilities thing.

Quests

It’s what Scryers do best; and also a great way to add some mid-late game flavor.

A Quest is a predetermined story that a character related to a faction must go through in order to better themselves for some sort of reward. Each faction will have one (or possibly more than one) quest that they could try to accomplish once they have established themselves that will eventually lead them to some kind of fancy reward ranging from - New paragons, extra abilities, huge monetary rewards, or even the claiming of a region or two that would normally be unobtainable!

You may be wondering - Don’t we kind of already have that? Well, Josh, I could go so far as to say “No, not at all.” All of our story arcs in the current God Wars are either in the form of action-irrelevant lores, or underplayed in the rewards department. Right now we have annoyances that need to be dealt with and swept under the rug, rather than a full on story with a beginning, middle, and end that not only betters the people involved, but provides the sweet loots.

Need some examples of what I’m talking about? Well, Mike, I’ll be happy to give you some!

Currently:
The owner of the Nardan faction at some point lost his paragon for who knows how long due to a kidnapping while she was sent on a diplomatic mission. One day he rescues her by sending troops from Region A to Region B, and then sends troops from Region A to Region B again in order to basically make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Quest Version
The Sultana of the Nardans, during a diplomatic meeting with a nearby nation, gets kidnapped! The people of the nearby nation claims to have no connection to it... But the people of Nardah believe differently. One day, a man in the Nardan Intelligence picks up a tip from a travelling merchant who claims to know some people who could lead him to the Sultana!

The Nardan spy, along with a posse then goes on a journey to the northern desert in order to meet with these ‘people.’ The people turn out to be assassins! As such - he must lead him and his posse into a mini brawl in a foreign city - But at least one assassin must remain alive in order to interrogate him! They succeed, and the Assassin reveals the captor of the Sultana was INDEED the authorities of city that she was in! The spy heads back to Nardah in order to relay the information - We need to go to war with this city!

The Nardan government refuses to put their sultana in such danger, as such, there is only one option for the spy - To sneak into the city with a small group of trained spies in order to rescue the beloved Sultana. They successfully breach the city, and they make their way through the city palace... Only to find the leader of the city and a small gang waiting for them! They do battle in order to finally save the life of the Sultana...



So what happens next? That’s for the faction leader to decide, of course~

All quests will be open-ended - I mean, of course there is always the chance of you failing! There would be no suspense if you COULDN’T fail! The story can only move along as long as the faction leader keeps up with the requirements of the story. In this case; the faction leader would have to 1). send the spy to the right places. 2). win the fight against the Assassins, and 3). win the fight against the Leader of the city while having a numbers disadvantage. The above story is a really simplified example of the endless possibilities of what we can do with Quest writing!

Rewards

What do we get for completing quests? Obviously experience points, but BESIDES that; there are a few options I could think of for rewards (of course, every faction would have a reward based on their story - no two rewards could be the same, amirite?)

1). New Paragons.
The above example would be one that would add the “new paragon.” The character of the “Spy,” once the story begins, will become a paragon for usage ONLY for the story. After it though, the Spy will be able to rejoin the Nardans and become an espionage/fighting - style paragon for usage to the owners discretion! Quests that feature a “new character” accomplishing some kind of goal will usually have that character become a new paragon.

2). Extra Abilities (to Existing Paragons)
Suppose the quest was about a paragon you already own (such as your warlord?) What kind of rewards could be offered then? Well, besides the chance of a potential “traveling partner” becoming a new paragon, we could also take advantage of the possible ability system! “Through much experience in this saga, the Sultana of the Nardan faction gained a new ability to be used in battle based around all these struggles and whatnot!” Since the ability system is set up that all Paragons begin with only TWO abilities... Howsabout we raise their Attack/Strength/Defense/Magic/Ranged/Constitution level in order to give them a third? Doesn’t seem THAT unreasonable <3 (It even gives characters a feeling of leveling up :D)

3). Piles and Piles of (New?) Resources
C’mon, we all know THAT quest that just gives you a handful of monetary rewards that end up being sold on the G.E. But in God Wars, since resources can actually be your best friend, why not have that be a side reward for a quest? The Sultana, during her captivity, found out about a secret stash of gems hidden away - Guess what, NOW YOU’RE RICH! Everyone’s happy!

Of course, a lot of quests also unlock secret training techniques and resources. I don’t think it would be that horrible if new resources with fancy powers were dug up, would it? (We found stones that are double the durability and easier to mine! These special stones cut stone-building costs by 1/5! or something.)

4). Regions
What’s that? The leader of the city is DEAD? Well, then, you better join us, or we can take you over!

Pretty self explanatory; You finish the quest, and in the story you managed to claim the region!




Just and idea.

Total work in progress, I suppose.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Sat May 25, 2013 2:27 pm

Ah, it was a bit different to what I thought it was. Well, it's not a bad idea, I definitely feel there is place for that in the game. However, the way I'd prefer to do it would be in the form of moving adventurers (paragons), who are probably on a quest and if you are in the right place at a right time, you can help them out for sweet rewards, like paragons, artefacts, spells, etc.

Of course, it's possible to force a quest on someone, I guess, which would usually be as a result of some sort of failure (like with Valide's kidnapping) on the faction owner's part. However, I don't want to impose the quests on anyone, and I think making up quests for specific characters (or rather, specific players) is somehow artificial. Like, if I came up with a good quest that suited a Saradominist paragon, I'd have to come up with 6 other quests for the paragons of the other factions for the sake of fairness. I'd rather just have it be sort of random.
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PostSubject: Re: Magic, Artifacts & Paragons   Sat May 25, 2013 2:37 pm

Interesting. So do you think the different factions could possibly "hire" or just have an Adventurer Paragon? And they can send this unit to various places around the world and hope to land on a potential quest?

OO! Or do you think we could have areas around the world that are like... "Designated Quest Areas" that, if an Adventurer happens to be there at the right time, then they can begin a quest?

Or were you thinking it should be kind of like Valide's kidnapping where it was just happenchance, and then we just write a quest for it?

Because from the guy I had learned about this - He says that all of the factions "Stories" are pre-determined before the game begins, based on the lore of the show/game the War game is based off of.

But I think we could possibly make it work without having to do that. We shall see.
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