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Jasband
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PostSubject: Resources | Economy   Fri May 10, 2013 4:11 pm

RESOURCES


Resources come in 5 main types, with 3 "specialty" resources that have limitations. The basic resources are as follows:

Wood: Used mainly for the production of buildings, ships, siege engines, and soldier weaponry.
Stone: Used to construct more durable or higher-end buildings and defensive structures.
Metal: Used in the forging of many things, primarily ships, siege engines, arms, and armor.
Cloth: Used to build ships and clothe some military units, particularly Mages and Priests.
Hides: Used to protect Siege Towers from incendiary harm and as armor for Ranged units.

Each player may gather up to 20k resources each season, before modifiers are applied. Resource modifiers are gained by capturing regions and are also provided by certain buildings and research projects; they allow players to enhance how much of a particular resource they actually gain.

For instance, I can gather a maximum of 20,000 Stone in one season. However, if I have a Stone modifier of 2.0x, then I actually gain (20,000 * 2.0) 40,000 Stone! This remains true for all resources and their modifiers.

The specialty resources are as follows:

Runes: Used to fuel Major Spells, teleportation, and research, as well as the production of Magic units.
Gems: A luxury resource that can be traded with other factions for Gold.
Horses: Allows Cavalry units to be trained.

Each of these resources has two limitations: It requires a source before it can be collected, and it has its own collection cap.

Certain regions are marked as a source of each of these resources - e.g., Shilo Village is a source of Gems. Before a player can collect Gems, for example, he'll need to control a source of it. Capturing the region that is marked as a source is sufficient. Once a source is captured, the player will have a modifier of 1.0x for that resource. After that, capturing an additional source will add +0.2x to that modifier.

The collection caps for the specialty resources are as follows. Note that, like the overall collection cap, these values are before modifiers:

Runes: 10,000.
Gems: 5,000.
Horses: 2,000.

ECONOMY


In God Wars V, economy refers to the accumulation and expenditure of Gold. Unlike the normal and specialty resources, Gold can't be collected manually; it is passively taxed from your regions and passively spent on your construction projects, research endeavors, and military upkeep. Gold can also be used in diplomacy as a persuasive tool, if you have enough of it to offer.

The amount of Gold a region brings in each season is determined by its classification:

Wild: 5,000.
Settled: 15,000.
Advanced: 30,000.

City and Region Improvements, covered later, can enhance the income generated by the regions they're built in. Additionally, if a player acquires a source of Gems and can find a willing buyer, he can generate some profit from them.


Last edited by Jasband on Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:32 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Limes

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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Sat May 11, 2013 11:29 pm

So, pretty much nothing has changed, except for income, which has been balanced. Sounds good!
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Sun May 12, 2013 10:12 am

Runes were given a collection cap. It's experimental, though, so if we feel we can't get enough Runes during playtesting, I'll adjust/remove it. I just want Runes to become a bit more of a precious commodity than they currently are (especially for players, like me, who have captured multiple rune altars).
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:44 pm

I increased the regional income a bit; with all of the new expenses, I think it'll be balanced. Can easily be changed back during playtesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:54 pm

I'm willing to experiment on this, but if we're going to rebalance the resource modifiers and sources anyway, I think someone who has a lot of runes around him will have less of the other stuff, and if that happens, imposing a cap on the person will just nerf him in relation to the others, because he can't excel with the one advantage he has, runes. Get what I'm saying?
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:58 pm

Well, if said player was smart, he'd use a tech to lift the cap, or just keep improving the rate at which he can collect runes.

But I see what you're saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:08 pm

I do indeed get what you're saying, William, but I see players who have a hard time accessing any of the Rune/Gem/Horse sources as a bigger problem. I was planning to create more sources, perhaps by having the Kingdom of Gielinor rediscover how to create rune altars (or the World Guardian could use the Stone of Jas to do it). Gems are a bit different, we don't necessarily have to provide a lore reason; same with horses.

Edit: Adjusted the income back down a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:50 pm

I think we should, for God Wars V, think a little outside of the box.


So, why don't we have some other resources, called "rare" resources (Similar to Custom Resources of GW3).

The Region List doesn't show these resources, nor does scouting. When you claim the region, you get to know if it has a rare resource. But be warned, rare resources are guarded strongly. These rare resources have a random effect, and are possible to make a new troop that you have to find the ability to recruit nearby. Their resource modifier is capped to 1x, and you can only collect 1000 per turn. Any Rare Resource-related troops are very powerful. NOTE: Some Rare Resources are only conquerable by a faction, so Blood Crystal can only be conquered by the Zamorakians.

For example, let's say there is a rare resource in Darkmeyer called Blood Crystal, guarded by a Blood Crystal Centurion and his legion (5k troops+). This can create a new troop, called Bloodbound Vampyres, which you first have to conquer the Abandoned Mine to get. NOTE: Only the rare resource is heavily guarded. If the resource is used for a troop, the region which unlocks recruiting isn't so heavily guarded, but is still guarded.

As another example, in Menaphos there is a metal called Desert Sand, which is made from sand. No one knows how the sand can make that metal, but only kings and queens have the access to use it for weaponry and whatnot. Any building that usually requires metal and Desert Sand is used, the building is more sturdy. If it is used on a metal-requiring troop, the troop has more defence.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:28 pm

I shall quote William.

"Bookkeeping Nightmare."
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:05 am

Limes wrote:
I shall quote William.

"Bookkeeping Nightmare."
How is it a bookkeeping nightmare? It's simple, really. Just collect 1,000 per turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:12 am

I quite like the idea of a rare resource. You could have the region-specific one like Blood Crystal, or a landscape/area-specific resource like Desert Metal for the Desert. The region-specific would only be found in that region, while the Desert Metal would be scarcely scattered across the desert.

The Elven Soldiers recruited from the Crystal resource in GW3 was pretty fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:45 am

Toa Takanuva wrote:
Limes wrote:
I shall quote William.

"Bookkeeping Nightmare."
How is it a bookkeeping nightmare? It's simple, really. Just collect 1,000 per turn.
Not like that. It's an Administrative Bookkeeping Nightmare. It'd not only be hell to keep track and develop all the Rare resources, what they do, everything effected by them, special things that are required to use them, what the NPC personalities are effected by them, the story behind them, and have all of that completely secret from the playerbase, but it'd be incredibly hard to balance and it'd overtax our already heavily-burdened Gamemasters, who are working VERY hard on the EXTREME amount of NPC personalities in each of the Territories and all of the Politics inside and between the, for almost no benefit.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:11 am

Limes wrote:
Toa Takanuva wrote:
Limes wrote:
I shall quote William.

"Bookkeeping Nightmare."
How is it a bookkeeping nightmare? It's simple, really. Just collect 1,000 per turn.
Not like that. It's an Administrative Bookkeeping Nightmare. It'd not only be hell to keep track and develop all the Rare resources, what they do, everything effected by them, special things that are required to use them, what the NPC personalities are effected by them, the story behind them, and have all of that completely secret from the playerbase, but it'd be incredibly hard to balance and it'd overtax our already heavily-burdened Gamemasters, who are working VERY hard on the EXTREME amount of NPC personalities in each of the Territories and all of the Politics inside and between the, for almost no benefit.
You don't get it, NPC States aren't affected by them, or anything else. They are just there to be used for what they are used for. So please, stop disagreeing with everything I suggest.

It's easy enough for William to just have a list somewhere of what Rare Resources are there, where they are, and what they do.

It's that simple and not so game-breaking.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:19 am

Toa Takanuva wrote:
Limes wrote:
Toa Takanuva wrote:
Limes wrote:
I shall quote William.

"Bookkeeping Nightmare."
How is it a bookkeeping nightmare? It's simple, really. Just collect 1,000 per turn.
Not like that. It's an Administrative Bookkeeping Nightmare. It'd not only be hell to keep track and develop all the Rare resources, what they do, everything effected by them, special things that are required to use them, what the NPC personalities are effected by them, the story behind them, and have all of that completely secret from the playerbase, but it'd be incredibly hard to balance and it'd overtax our already heavily-burdened Gamemasters, who are working VERY hard on the EXTREME amount of NPC personalities in each of the Territories and all of the Politics inside and between the, for almost no benefit.
You don't get it, NPC States aren't affected by them, or anything else. They are just there to be used for what they are used for. So please, stop disagreeing with everything I suggest.

It's easy enough for William to just have a list somewhere of what Rare Resources are there, where they are, and what they do.

It's that simple and not so game-breaking.
I'm disagreeing because it's a bad idea, and the fact that you suggest that NPC personalities aren't affected politically by a resource only THEY will have, in addition to the fact that you didn't counteract any of my other arguments: The Balancing Issues, the Recording Issues, The Development Issues, the NPC Political issues, and the fact that RECORDING what they all do mid-game.

It's NOT easy enough to do this kind of stuff. It ISN'T that simple when you have to remember a million different aspects about the game. Siroki and William are already overburdened enough, and adding a massive, bad mechanic's development, balancing, and maintenance would make GW5's release even slower.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:28 am

I can see the appeal of "Rare Resources", but I think the proposal is not quite what I'd want, for several reasons:

1. While we don't necessarily want to homogenize all regions and make them more or less the same, we also don't want a small number of players gaining access to huge advantages from territory owned simply because their regions have special attributes. Also, the problem with making Rare Resources faction-specific is that if that faction were to ever lose that region, the conqueror would have no use for what they've just conquered; Resource Modifiers, on the other hand, benefit everyone equally.

2. The reasons Lime mentioned.

3. We already have secret things that are discovered in regions: Artifacts. Unlike Rare Resources, however, they can be obtained by means other than conquest, though that's certainly the most common route.

I'm not ready to completely abandon the idea, however. I think it'd be better incorporated through research, as it has in the past God Wars games. We keep the 1x modifier cap and probably the collection cap, though 2k might be better. The benefits are as such:

1. The resource gets much more usability. Instead of only being used to create new troops, for instance, it might be applied to construction, offered to NPC States, or used as a catalyst in future research.

2. The secrets of its collection and use can be given to other factions like any other research. For instance, if Lime figures out how to make MOAR BIG BOOMS in the Desert by inventing Sulfur collection, he can give that revelation to his ally, who owns the Lumbridge Swamp, so that he might just find the same resource and can make his own BIG BOOMS.

3. It's much less for the GMs to keep track of; researching each resource will take time, so there's plenty of opportunity to consider usefulness and balancing as it's being developed (literally!).

As with all things, Artifacts and probably Quests can affect the discovery of these resources, so there's your wildcard.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:10 pm

Alright, so the idea, while attractive on the first sight, is a little bit too cumbersome. Adding new resources into the game is generally a bad idea, because it would require an entire batch of different uses. I'd much more willingly cap a special unit production with some other mechanism than resources, simply because harvesting a single resource just for the sole purpose of recruiting a single type of troops is bland and not very fun.

The problem with making "super" versions of existing resources is quite simply being able to differentiate the units made with super resources from those who were created with normal versions, especially considering all the other effectiveness boosts already planned. That's not to say some super resources don't already exist, however...
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:29 pm

It's not as complex as it seems. It's a fancy name for the GW3 Faction resources - with more use, of course.

Yeah, they could be used in researches. But right now, GWV seems like a redo of God Wars 4 (Spymasters, caravans, and whatnot just are for realism and really don't affect anything). I'm trying to get something that hasn't happened before out there.

Also, Lime, I'll hold you to your word on that.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:58 pm

Toa Takanuva wrote:
It's not as complex as it seems. It's a fancy name for the GW3 Faction resources - with more use, of course.
Toa Takanuva wrote:
I'm trying to get something that hasn't happened before out there.
k

Toa Takanuva wrote:
Also, Lime, I'll hold you to your word on that.
What do you mean, hold me to my word? It's hard. End of story. I've been a gamemaster, and I know it's hard. It's not like I'm promising you anything. And, if you were trying to be passive aggressive, that was pretty much the equivalent of saying "Your mom!" after I finished my argument.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:45 am

Limes wrote:
What do you mean, hold me to my word? It's hard. End of story. I've been a gamemaster, and I know it's hard. It's not like I'm promising you anything. And, if you were trying to be passive aggressive, that was pretty much the equivalent of saying "Your mom!" after I finished my argument.
I think I am the only one that has never used that statement, nor heard of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:40 pm

Toa Takanuva wrote:
GWV seems like a redo of God Wars 4 (Spymasters, caravans, and whatnot just are for realism and really don't affect anything).
You think GW5 is a reskin of GW4?

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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:42 pm

Whatever helps you sleep at night, William.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:37 pm

Toa Takanuva wrote:
Whatever helps you sleep at night, William.
This exemplifies the reason why I think of you as an arrogant, ignorant piece of trash.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:18 am

Limes wrote:
Toa Takanuva wrote:
Whatever helps you sleep at night, William.
This exemplifies the reason why I think of you as an arrogant, ignorant piece of trash.
Lime, talking like that doesn't do anything but make you look the same to other people.

Also, haven't you been talked to regarding stopping the name calling? Please learn to convey your thoughts without calling people names.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:17 am

Veylantz wrote:
Limes wrote:
Toa Takanuva wrote:
Whatever helps you sleep at night, William.
This exemplifies the reason why I think of you as an arrogant, ignorant piece of trash.
Lime, talking like that doesn't do anything but make you look the same to other people.

Also, haven't you been talked to regarding stopping the name calling? Please learn to convey your thoughts without calling people names.
The fact that Toa has been a constant font of Bad ideas both in GW4 and in GWV and all you've ever done is reinforce them doesn't help. He has CONSISTENTLY managed to offend me and has consistently dishonored the work that William, Jascertes, Siroki and I have done here.

He suggests things we've already tossed, makes statements that don't make sense, and is calling us a reskin of GW4 when all of his ideas have only tried to turn it into a redskin of GW4. It's beyond me what his place here is.

Just like I expected. And that's exactly the reason why I don't plan on ever forgiving him or you. Every time, without fail, Toa will figure out some new way of being a piece of shit, and you will reinforce whatever he says every time.

EDiT: Also, I couldn't care less about my image now. You guys have seen me being worse.
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PostSubject: Re: Resources | Economy   Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:43 am

Their hard work? I am applauding their hard work, regardless of how it was made in the process. I am trying to make God Wars V better, adding ideas that no one has thought about. You? Oppose me every single time. That's who you are, I'm afraid to say.

I have never seen anything, anything at all that classifies as God Wars V not a reskin. Agents and Caravans are for realism. Just that. Like Gold was in God Wars 4. They may be good ideas, but in the end they are realism.

It is your choice whether I offend you are not. You have chose the bad option and take everything as an offence, when, you shouldn't. You hate me, fine, that's your business.

But when it comes to God Wars, you go way out of line. It's just a game. It's not real life. So treat it as a game, it is what it is. Don't treat God Wars as a vendetta against me and Veylantz. It's not.

If you don't plan on forgiving anyone, just get out of here.
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