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Jasband
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PostSubject: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 10:56 am

Alright, it seems we all have different ideas of how the GW5 setting should be, and, as true Scryers, we're passionate about defending what we've created. However, I see a number of requirements that we still haven't decided upon, and I believe we should sort them out first, before proposing anything (too late, but let's still try!)

We need to decide if we're going to:

  1. Incorporate the winner of GW4 somehow.
  2. Include events of in-game lore thus far (i.e., the beginning of the Sixth Age and the POSSIBLE, NOT-YET-DEFINITE ascension to godhood of Sliske).
  3. Incorporate an alternate win mechanic into the lore, e.g., assembling the Siphon Core in GW4.
  4. Explain the weakened state of NPC factions in the main fluff, or create separate lore for each faction.
  5. Explain how the gods are prevented from directly intervening in the world.
  6. Explain how potentially game-balance destroying entities, like Mahjarrat, are not in the world.


I'm not as concerned with explaining who the Gamemaster will be in the lore. He can be whoever he wants, he'll have control regardless.

Please look at each of the 6 points above and reply with a "Yes" or "No", with justification. Once we get that done, I'll post each of our submissions (modified to fit whichever points we agree upon) and we can vote on them.
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Limes

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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 11:02 am

1. No, we've RP'd that storyline to the end and back. The thing is just way too disrupted as is, and we need a clean slate.

2. Yes, that's the main reason why we should reset the lore, so we have a definite point of where the new canon starts that everyone agrees on. Sliske, additionally, should become a new god, in that he is represented by a Faction. He has a Faction ingame, he should have one here.

3. Nope, I'm pretty sure the Siphon Core thing already died. Besides, it's really annoying in a strategy game when you think you know EXACTLY how to win, and you're about to win, and SURPRISE! Another faction assembled an "I-Win!" Button and somehow won the game with only their capital left.

4. I half feel like there should be some explanation to the main lore, but also half-feel like we need to discover the backstory for the NPC states themselves. It should remotely tie into the backstory for the entire game, but the entire canon should not be a direct result of Sliske killing Guthix.

5. Yes, it's only logical. I think it's the only point we agree on.

6. Yep. I personally like my explanation of how the Rejuvination Ritual suddenly stopped working, so they killed each other until there was only one left, and that one, too, was killed.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 11:28 am

Incorporate the winner of GW4 somehow.

This first question is a doozy... But I'll have to go with a very shaky Yes. I know a lot of people like their stories that they're developing, and as such would probably like to maybe continue on with that storyline... I mean, that's what I really wanted to do! Haha.

Perhaps, in a weird twist of fate, the Siphon Core was a containment device for the World Guardian? Or even the Siphon Core made the winner INTO the World Guardian?

Include events of in-game lore thus far (i.e., the beginning of the Sixth Age and the POSSIBLE, NOT-YET-DEFINITE ascension to godhood of Sliske).

No. If we are continuing with our own lore, then most of the events in-game would make not one lick of sense. Maybe Sliske could have ascended pre-GW, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if he hadn't.

Incorporate an alternate win mechanic into the lore, e.g., assembling the Siphon Core in GW4.

Wait, the siphon core let's you win lol?

How's about this - (First of all, yes) The World Guardian, after blockading the world from the Gods, hid itself away somewhere in the world. In order to find it - the godly factions must assemble a key/gather some kind of godly object. Using this key/godly object, the World Guardian reveals itself for the FINAL BATTLE. Beat it, and you win.

Explain the weakened state of NPC factions in the main fluff, or create separate lore for each faction.

Well that depends. I say yes on explaining the weakened state, either way.

As of right now, the best option in my head is thus: The Siphon Core awakes the World Guardian in the winner. As this happens, the Gods come down to Gielinor in order to try and seal it away. Many years of fighting ensues - Eventually the World Guardian beats back the gods - but many of the various nations have fallen due to the constant fighting. At this point the World Guardian appoints people to watch over the nations rebuilding and then goes all reclusive on us. (It would be cool if the people appointed to the nations were the reformed warlords of GW4 - that way everyone can kind of start fresh - but that's not necessary. It could just be his allies during the fight.)

Explain how the gods are prevented from directly intervening in the world.

World Guardian puts up another barrier. Unfortunately this barrier is not as almighty as Guthix's was, and as such - the gods can still send whispers and visions down to their subjects/prophets in order to spark another war.

Explain how potentially game-balance destroying entities, like Mahjarrat, are not in the world.

Last Mahjarrat has died of old age, since there was none others to sacrifice. In fact, the one I'm about to fight in GW4 could very well have been the last one! HOOTHOOTHOOT

************************************

The problem with my vote is that I also agree with Lime's points in a lot of ways. Sorry ;~;
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 11:51 am

The first question is less about continuing every god faction's GW4 lore - as Lime said, we've RP'd that game to the end and back - and more about somehow including the winner in the lore. For instance:

"At the end of the Core Wars, Tiberius Magnus emerged victorious. Through great cunning, skill, and patience, he had outplayed and outmaneuvered his competition to obtain all of the Shards and reassemble the immensely powerful Siphon Core itself. Standing atop White Wolf Mountain, with the vastness of Gielinor spread before him, he attempted to harness the Core's power to free his Lord, Zaros, from the dimension he had been trapped in centuries ago. However, being ancient Guthixian technology, the Core did not react as Tiberius had anticipated, even with his elite priests and incantors doing their best to control its swirling energies.

Defying the will of the mortals, the Siphon Core instead obeyed its programming; it spewed its power in all directions, a multitude of green tendrils streaking through the clouds. The energy descended upon millions of people, ripping the life from their chests and causing great terror and panic. Most of Gielinor's leaders, including Tiberius and the self-proclaimed Warlords of the other gods, were slain. Coupled with the direct devastation that the Core Wars had wrought, the world was left on the brink of extinction."

It's both incorporating the winner of GW4 and starting fresh.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 11:53 am

I feel like doing it like that would just make the Lore even more messed up and even more complex. I feel like a Clean Slate would do us all just fine.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 12:07 pm

My argument was based on that assumption. I guess that means I should change in order to remain valid <3

SO.

I agree a lot with what Lime says. Here are some points I would like to add my own commentary to:

3). But what if we just end up in a stalemate between the final two factions? I feel that once two factions are big enough, there's just no way to be able to kill them off. An "I-Win" button would be the only way we could keep the game going without loss of intrigue.

4). None of that wishy-washy half and half! I say we go big - make up lore for the NPC factions as to why they're there individually or at least by group. If we do go ahead with a full-wipe of kingdoms, then that can just be the main-lore connection. Otherwise, let's be original <3
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 12:27 pm

3). If that happens, there will have to be a way made by the Gamemaster to break the stalemate, then!

4) Well, I don't want to go so that everything just collapses because Guthix Dies. I want it to be more like "Guthix Died, The world came in Turmoil, Varrock saw a Chance to rule over Asgarnia and Misthalin, and engaged in a bloody war with Falador, fueled in part by Religious Tensions and ecouraged by the Gods, which ended up with both Cities losing Vast Swaths of territory." or maybe "Ardougne's power in Kandarin crumbled when the Gods burned small towns to the ground, and the resulting desperation caused Political Turmoil, which lead to the utter collapse of the Ardougne Hegemony."
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 4:40 pm

1. No. I want an absolutely clean slate and a world that has nothing to do with any of the lore from God Wars 3 and 4. That means the winner, too.

2. Yes. I think if we invent our entirely own canon that has nothing to do with the in-game events sort of breaks the concept of the game. It's important we fight in a world that is familiar to us.

3. Yes. I actually want the "alternative" win mechanic be the "main" win mechanic. It bring much more depth to the game, really. Killing all the others off is a bit too bland, really. And if not an instant I-Win -button, at least some sort of immensely overpowered buff. I'd love to see politics around something like that!

4. Yeah, it needs to be explained. If not in the main fluff, then as separate stories.

5. YES! I don't think this even needs any backing up. It's just obvious why it must be.

6. Well, I don't want Azzanadras and such running around. I'm fine with keeping unaffiliated entities (I have a few in my mind), but those who swear allegiance to gods (pretty much all of those who are in the game) must go.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:12 pm

The Problem with I-Win Buttons is that when someone gets something like that, everyone goes, "Welp, if we don't band together, we're all gonna die to this guy anyways. If I don't have to deal with this next guy, I won't betray anyone else." And then we get the Uber-Mega alliance of death.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:17 pm

I agree that having an alternate win mechanic is kind of unnecessary. William says defeating everyone else to win is boring, but how is that true? We've developed the mechanics of God Wars so much at this point that "defeating everyone else" may SOUND bland, yet it's anything but.

I'm tentatively of with something that, instead of declaring you the winner, gives you a powerful boon. As long as it's difficult to obtain and can still be thwarted somehow.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:19 pm

Jasband wrote:
I agree that having an alternate win mechanic is kind of unnecessary. William says defeating everyone else to win is boring, but how is that true? We've developed the mechanics of God Wars so much at this point that "defeating everyone else" may SOUND bland, yet it's anything but.

Also remember that Nobody in the history of God Wars has ever actually done it.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:27 pm

Limes wrote:
Jasband wrote:
I agree that having an alternate win mechanic is kind of unnecessary. William says defeating everyone else to win is boring, but how is that true? We've developed the mechanics of God Wars so much at this point that "defeating everyone else" may SOUND bland, yet it's anything but.

Also remember that Nobody in the history of God Wars has ever actually done it.

Except I.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:30 pm

Lord William wrote:
Limes wrote:
Jasband wrote:
I agree that having an alternate win mechanic is kind of unnecessary. William says defeating everyone else to win is boring, but how is that true? We've developed the mechanics of God Wars so much at this point that "defeating everyone else" may SOUND bland, yet it's anything but.

Also remember that Nobody in the history of God Wars has ever actually done it.

Except I.

When was this?
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:31 pm

God Wars I, I won the battle of Varrock, to which everyone threw all their forces.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:36 pm

GW1 was a thing? Didn't it only last, like, 3 hours? Lol
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Yeah, but it still counts.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 9:59 pm

What about various Elder Artifacts that grant various game-changing buffs, rather then the artifacts now available which are more like "Oh, yeah, that actually helps!" (I mean that non-sarcastically)

I dunno what these game changing effects would be, tho, but since there are many different caveats to this game, I'm sure we can think of something.

Now we just have to explain how to CLAIM these artifacts. Grandmaster Quests with the wandering adventurers, perhaps? <3
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 10:27 pm

Well, as of right now, the only useful Artifact would be the one that Toa has, because only Toa ever gets the useful stuff. I mean, seriously, every time someone tries to get a leg up on him, Veylantz essentially goes "Well, Toa gets this thing that is only Borderline balanced, that should be good for another five turns!"

Things an Artifact could do:
1. Increase speed of Conversion (Let's not talk about William's GW2 Artifact...)
2. Increase chance that research will succeed
3. Increase Fighting Morale
4. Random chance of build time being one shorter (Like the Artisans)
5. Increase Defence in Battle
6. Increase Attack in Battle
7. Increase Health in Battle
8. Sap enemy Morale.
9. Sap Enemy Attack.
10. Sap Enemy Defence
11. Sap Enemy Health
12. A Major Spell
13. Extra Resources/Turn
14. Increase speed of Caravans
15. Lower Costs (Just less OP than Toa's Artifact)
16. Increase Seige-Weapon Accuracy
17. Increase Ship Speed
18. Increase Gold Income
19. Lower Prices needed to pay for Troops
20. Lower Rune Costs for Major Spells
21. Increase Major-Spell strength
22. Allow for faster Movement of Armies
23. Increased Chance of Espionage mission succeeding
24. A Massive Fucking Bomb
25. Summons Additional Warriors in a Battle, which can only be used in that battle

Might add more later.


Last edited by Limes on Sun May 26, 2013 10:35 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Not enough cynicism)
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun May 26, 2013 11:46 pm

Is this the Artifacts thread? GTFO!

To keep you on-topic, we've all voted. Here are the answers.

1. Incorporate the winner of GW4 somehow: NO
2. Include events of in-game lore thus far (i.e., the beginning of the Sixth Age and the POSSIBLE, NOT-YET-DEFINITE ascension to godhood of Sliske): This is actually tied, 2-2. My vote is for no. Since William and Lime are the loud ones, and they both voted yes, I think we have to go with YES. Please stop arguing about Sliske, though.
3. Incorporate an alternate win mechanic into the lore: Another 2-2 (I vote no). This one will depend on the winning lore; if it includes an alternate win mechanic, fine.
4. Explain the weakened state of NPC factions in the main fluff, or create separate lore for each faction: No one really gave a clear answer. Therefore, we'll go with a case-by-case basis. Perhaps some NPC States can be explained by the main backstory, while others have their own fluff.
5. Explain how the gods are prevented from directly intervening in the world: YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
6. Explain how potentially game-balance destroying entities, like Mahjarrat, are not in the world: YES

Okay. So, in light of the (sort-of) consensus, please create/tweak your backstories and post them in this thread. We'll then vote on them to see which one is Le Most Awesome GW5 Setting.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Wed May 29, 2013 3:54 pm

We went from arguing passionately about this to not posting anything!
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Wed May 29, 2013 3:55 pm

I might write a lore later.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Thu May 30, 2013 2:15 pm

Ever since the death of Guthix, the world has been in turmoil.

With his death, the Edicts that forbade all gods from entering this world vanished – and so, one by one the gods descended upon us. They sent their emissaries around the world and began to convert us to their side, they raided the world of their resources, and they ravaged those who would not follow. There was only one defense against them; The World Guardian, a mysterious figure who was given the last of Guthix's power.

No body knows who or what the World Guardian was, but its renown was greatly understood. The being, who was unaffected by the powers of the gods, did everything it could in order to stop any influence the gods had on this world. Once the gods began to see the World Guardian as a threat, they began their own campaign to remove its existence.

They tried combat, assassination, power-removal; everything in their godly influence to get rid of this great power. Nothing seemed to work, and the World Guardian, after many years of warring with the gods, managed to successfully repel them far away. The people were in awe as they saw lights flying far into the sky - the gods finally leaving the world forever – some people were ecstatic that the final request of Guthix was finally in fruition, others cried that their lost masters were now gone.

The World Guardian, its task complete, began its preparations to leave the world and continue battle with the expelled gods. Before it left, it did two actions to retain world peace; the war-torn cities, who have been long since abandoned, were given leaders in the forms of the various allies the World Guardian had, whether for good or for bad. The second action the World Guardian did was create the New Edicts – A new barrier using a tremendous amount of Guthix's granted power. The World Guardian then left the world forever to do battle with the gods.

Unfortunately, the Edicts were not as strong as they once were – Many holes were present in the barrier, and as such many of the gods managed to send their whispers into their subjects ears. The whispers told of a scattered, magical device that the World Guardian used in order to create the edicts – The Lost Naragi, which was assembled by pieces of Guthix's ancient memories. If the artifact were to be activated – perhaps a larger hole can open up in the New Edicts, and allow a god to slip through!

And so it began; The whispers turned to power, and power turned to devotion. The prophets of the gods rose up, gathered an army, and began their conquest of the land.

The next God Wars has begun!
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Thu May 30, 2013 3:15 pm

I'm liking this. It leaves ample room for other gods should we have more players, and, it's good. Additonally, I feel like we should leave the Gamemaster's identity ambiguous for this one, nobody truly being a gamemaster, as people have differing ideas of who it should be. Rather than fight with that ambiguity, I say we embrace it.
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Thu May 30, 2013 3:39 pm

Limes wrote:
I'm liking this. It leaves ample room for other gods should we have more players, and, it's good. Additonally, I feel like we should leave the Gamemaster's identity ambiguous for this one, nobody truly being a gamemaster, as people have differing ideas of who it should be. Rather than fight with that ambiguity, I say we embrace it.

We're judging everyone's submissions before we decide! *prods* *gets sprayed with caustic Lime juice and goes blind*
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PostSubject: Re: LORE: Vote!   Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:40 am

William! We need your lore!
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